My Idea for a New RTS/FPS Game

i was thinking about it the other day, i dont know how, it just popped into my head, i think i was thinking how somehow in FPS games a single soldier can shoot a tank with a rocket launcher and destroy it, but in RTS games you need a whole squad of rocket troops to do the same thing...

i was thinking about a game that let you experience a really dynamic FPS and/or RTS... experience

so, i was thinking something like this:

there are (at least) 2 human players, one acts as a general and plays the game much like a RTS, while the other player is the special forces whatever on the ground playing like a FPS, and the player would be able to play as infantry, tank driver or pilot etc.

so the general builds up a base (nothing too fancy, no research structures etc, the game would be more focused on combat and strategy than Sim City) or fortifies an existing base (for defensive missions). after (or even during the time when) the general consolidates his position (builds/fortifies a base) the objectives can start. the RTS player then sends forces out on missions to complete objectives, much like your standard RTS.

while the RTS player builds the base etc, the FPS player can be going on recon missions or resource capture missions or patrols etc, something small that does not require too much attention from the RTS player. then, when the action starts, the FPS player recieves objectives. im unsure atm if i want to enable the player to choose which objectives to do, or just give him a list, either random or static (the same every time its played). i do know i want both players to decide how to cary out each mission. for instance, if they decide they want to destroy the power generators with an air strike, the RTS player has to send a unit to retrieve the FPS player, and bring him back to base so he can get in a plane. similarly, if they decide they want to take it out with ground forces and explosives, they need to decide how to get the FPS player to the objective, either humping it (by foot) or by having the RTS player send the cavalry (tanks, humvees whatever) to pick up the FPS player and continue to the objective. conversly, if the FPS player wants to use an air strike to take out the power plant because there is a ton of armor between him and the objective, the RTS player could say, sorry, no can do, all my jets are tied up on other tasks (like defending ground units) you need to use what you have.

one scene i was thinking of was an assault on some enemy base or outpost or fortification, with artillery, aircraft, explosions, tanks, infantry etc etc.

so the mission starts off you jump out of a troop transport or paradrop to the ground, and you fight with a squad to *rally point A* just some arbitrary point, like you secured the high ground or an artillery position whatever. then, the RTS player takes control of the artillery, and the FPS player goes to escort an engineering squad to repair a damaged helicopter or something, then when that is complete joins the attack on the fortress (lets say). now, though, its infantry vs infantry, except some enemy tanks rock up, so FPS player calls RTS player and asks him to send armor re-inforcements, then the FPS player jumps in a tank and continues to fight and so on.

idn, it works in my mind, its very hard to describe because the game im thinking of is VERY complicated with ALOT going on at once. there would also be dozens of ways to accomplish an objective, with varying degrees of success, also dependant on where your "special forces" i.e. the other human player, is playing. so, if there are two of you, and you decide to put your FPS player in an aircraft, air superiority is (naturally) boosted, but your ground forces may suffer.

also, im thinking the battlefield would change each time in terms of landscape (not major things, but little things like a tank carcass that infantry can use for cover, or a crater or barbed wire that was there before but not now. or mounted weapons or discarded vehicles that are there sometimes but not other times or are in different positions or configurations etc etc. another thing is enemy force composition would change each time you play. so, for instance, after the FPS player escorts the engineers to the down helicopter, he attacked the fortress remember? and enemy tanks rocked up? well, lets say the next time you play, its not tanks but snipers or anti-armor infantry, or aircraft etc. that way you have to be prepared and think quickly to win.

another thing i was thinking to maybe have 2 RTS players, one human and one AI, with a bunch of seperate objectives (and ways for it to cause havoc to your plans, like calling in artillery on a tank formation right before you ambush it with infantry) etc for the AI. so for instance, lets say the FPS player has to breach and enter the fortress, first time the entry is full of infantry and tanks, second time, its been cleared out because a jet was shot down and it crashed into the entry way etc etc

 

sorry if its confusing, like i said, its a very complicated game, and i dont think it could be a single player game because i dont think we could program an AI intelligent enough to perform in the place of a human, nor would we want to because thats sorta the point, that we have real people interacting on the battlefield.

im more than welcome to discussion about this, (sorta why i posted it here) as well as yays, nays, or offers to help flush out the balance, gameplay, unit types and lore sides of the game (ive never been that creative with plot twists or original stories)

lastly, i realise that this game, at least how i envision it, may not even be possible given today's technology or at least the technology available to the majority of gamers (in terms of performance, im thinking something crossed between the graphics of Crysis or Gears of War, and the rendering power (dont know if thats the right word) of Sins of a Solar Empire or World In Conflict, where there are hundreds or thousands of things going on at once, such as aircraft making bombing runs, artillery shells falling, pieces of dirt and debris flying everywhere, smoke, fire, bullets/lasers, clouds, reflections, etc etc) still, id like to see peoples reactions and ideas for this concept

many thanks in advance, and have fun

58,582 views 18 replies
Reply #1 Top

wow, is it that bad of an idea?

Reply #2 Top

no-one has any opinions on this? wow... i feel like such a failure

Reply #3 Top

Go try out Battlezone.  It's a great game, came out in 1998.  You can download it here: http://battlezone1.freeforums.org/downloads-bz-1-4n-installer-t12.html

If you want to play multiplayer mainly, go here: http://bze.mod-planet.net/

Reply #4 Top

I like this but no developer has done this sadly... if I wrong on that FLAME ME! :grin:

Yes Battlezone is a great game... Also theres a mod for Half Life 2 called Empire I do believe... its a RTS/FPS... Kinda like your describing. Google it and there are videos on youtube...

Hopefully someone in the future makes one cause god sign me up it would be a blast!

 

Reply #6 Top

yeah, that Savage game sounds alot like what i was looking for.

idn, i realise this is an oxymoron, but i was thinking of the game primarily as a multiplayer campaign game, so you can play by yourself, and leave the other aspects to the AI, or you can play with up to X players who fill the other roles, and of course its more fun to play with other humans...

as for MP (like, aside from a campaign) yeah, there could be some generic maps... except i think the AI programming needed to generate random, battlefield changing events like a carpet bombing run or a battalion of tanks being destroyed, or defenses where there were none last time, would be massive, and possibly very difficult to keep synchronised, at least with todays technology

i mean, it would be suicide to release a game without skirmish mode or some sort of MP competitive mode to increase replayability, but then the fact that the battlefield 'changes' everytime and the objectives change everytime may just provide that replayability without the usual MP stuff

Reply #7 Top

no new ideas/opinions?

Reply #8 Top

Interesting idea. So the FPS player is given objectives by the RTS player? I'm not sure how this would work, but it would be fun if it did. Maybe the FPS player through promotions gets higher ranking and eventually becomes the RTS player: the General.

MP maps would be huge with thousands of people on a single map and epically long skirmishes. (Lag would likely be terrible though.) The leader of the clan would be the RTS player and he commands the other guys on his team. This would give a much more realistic portrayal of war. Rather then doing your own thing, you have superiors to obey.

It would suck if you had some dickhead General who sends people he doesn't like on suicide missions. However, bad records like this would somehow show up on the MP so people would know that this General is really hopeless or something. He can then be somehow "demoted" if he makes bad decisions or is very unpopular.

Reply #9 Top

Interesting idea. So the FPS player is given objectives by the RTS player?
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not so much strategic objectives as much as tactical ones. Strategic objectives (like primary objectives, the ones you need to do to win the game/mission and move on) will be given by the game itself, chosen by the developers. and to spice it up we can even have those change, based on a number of factors including layout of the map (for instance, one objective could be clear an AA battery, but, if when the map is generated and the AA battery has already been destroyed, that objective wouldnt come up)

tactical objectives would be the ones given by the RTS player, like clear this LZ, clear that valley/building, escort that tank column or engineering detail, im sending pickup, i need you in a jet for air superiority etc. The RTS player can also do things of his own volition or at the request of a FPS player. For instance, if a battle is going badly, and the RTS player wants to redeploy the FPS player(s) elsewhere, he could send a helicopter to retrieve them and put them elsewhere, or return them to base, etc. also, if the FPS player is getting pinned down by a fortification or an artillery piece or armored unit, the FPS player can call in for reinforcements and the RTS player could airlift in a tank for fire support etc. FPS players can issue tactical objectives to other human AI players in their squad or platoon (or company?) as well as to any AI accompianing them (so one FPs player in a jet can tell one wingman to break off an attack that target, the other wingman to attack that Artillery piece, and the 3rd wingman to stay on the FPS players tail and help take out defending jets etc. im not sure though if tactical objectives given to AI players that are completed should reward the FPS player with points...

im still thinking about whether requests for air strikes, reinforcements or retrieval should count as a tactical objective for the RTS player... im hesitant, because if the FPS player asks for an Air Strike, but cant see the AA battery around the corner, and the RTS player denies the strike, he looses points, so idn...

Maybe the FPS player through promotions gets higher ranking and eventually becomes the RTS player: the General.
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if you are playing by yourself this could work well. but if you are playing with a friend i think you should be able to assign one as the RTS player and one as FPS or both as FPS or maybe both as RTS? i think both as RTS sorta defies the point, but...

MP maps would be huge with thousands of people on a single map and epically long skirmishes. (Lag would likely be terrible though.)
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sounds epic and awesome =) but yeah, im also very worried about lag, i was suspecting that todays technology wouldnt be able to handle it...

This would give a much more realistic portrayal of war. Rather then doing your own thing, you have superiors to obey.
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that was the objective =)

It would suck if you had some dickhead General who sends people he doesn't like on suicide missions
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yeah, thats a valid point, especially for MP games, but i was thinking that for the FPS player, if you disobey orders from the RTS player (assuming they are suicide missions), and still manage to get a strategic objective done, the FPS player gains points (rank points, exp points, whatever kind of points i havent decided yet, some ideas would be appreciated though :) ). Not as many points for both the RTS and FPS players as they would have gained if they had worked together, but more than failing an objective or going off mission or dying in a suicide mission.

however, if the FPS player goes off mission and does not complete any objectives in say, 10-15 minutes (its such a long time because im assuming he will be without support and probably going on foot so...) the FPS player looses points, maybe suicides and respawns back at base after a 2 minute cooldown?

in reference to the next quote/idea, the same could apply to good FPS players. if they manage to perform above expectation, especially when given bad orders, it could show up on thier records and different teams/clans whatever could try to recruit better soldiers. same for soldiers who like to go AWOL and either cause havoc with friendly fire, or just go off and do nothing...

However, bad records like this would somehow show up on the MP so people would know that this General is really hopeless or something. He can then be somehow "demoted" if he makes bad decisions or is very unpopular.
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this also sounds good. as with the FPS player, good generals can be recruited (with the players consent) into new teams clans etc. and if they make poor decisions, their rank could go down.

before i forget, im just using the example of 1 FPS player and 1 RTS player. In a big game with big teams, there could be multiple RTS players commanding their own battalions or companies, and all answering to one higher ranking theatre commander RTS player, one who hands down all the directives etc. on the same note, there could be very many FPS players, having them operate as either single entities by themselves or with an AI squad, or as a squad themselves, with their own command structure (private, lance corporal, corporal, sargeant, sargeant major, captain so on and so forth)

So, i was just thinking about MP and how it would work with points, ranks and achievements/reputation

So, each player has 2 'profiles' if you will. one for their status as an RTS player, and one for their FPS status.

Each profile will have data that reflects you abilities, prowess, and style of play.

So for instance, new players will have a Rank: Private for FPS profile and Lieutenant for RTS player. This rank increases as your rank score goes up, culminating in General (Cheif of the Military) for RTS and Colonel for FPS players. you can get more of these points by killing the enemy, completing objectives (strategic and tactical) and completing bonus objectives and not loosing too many/any units ('any' could apply to all units on the battlefield, AI or otherwise or it could just apply to other online players). though, being the easiest to gain, they have little value

naturally, those with higher rank are better soldiers/generals.

then, players could have statistics like how many objectives completed out of those set, how many times the player died, how many orders the player disobeyed, how many times a general lost an FPS player due to friendly fire and how many times to enemy fire, etc etc.

also, they could have statistics like what style the player prefers or excells at. so a FPS player who operates well behind enemy lines with little or no support, causing lots of havoc and heaps of damage, would have statistics that show this, and the players talent at that style. so if a clan/team wants to recruit alot of soldiers adept at black ops, they could choose players who they know are good. alternatively, a FPS player who is a good pilot would have similar designation and talent score. also, a RTS player who has good air command ability and prefers air stirkes, or who is good with armored units and long range strikes, would have those style badges and talent ratings, again, so you can choose your team. there would be no limit to how many combat style badges you can earn, other than earning them all. badges would be earnt by doing well in a certain play style, both by completing strategic and tactical objectives and by staying alive/killing X number of enemy units. once you have the badge, though, it can be taken away if you start screwing up. dying too many times, calling in artillery on your own forces, going of mission for no reason, etc etc.

lastly, there would be a notifier denoting what kind of soldier you are: a soldier that follows order without question and fights until the objective is complete or he is dead, a soldier that will go off mission if he does not like an order, but completing an objective regardless, or a soldier that goes AWOL and accomplishes nothing of value.

same goes for what kind of commander: the kind that gives good orders (as in, ones that are obeyed and dont result in too many deaths) and backs them up with support, who keeps his units alive etc etc, a general that likes to force the breach and keep going until victory or death, regardless of casualties, or a general who tends to give bad orders and gets his troops killed for no reason.

again, those notifiers can be awarded and removed as you continue to succeed or fail. but you can only have one at a time.

i think i had more but ive forgotten so ill compile them all here

you would have two profiles, one for when you play RTS and one for when you play FPS. they would be linked so people can find you easily. you would have differing statistics in both profiles, like Rank, Ability or Talent, Playing Style or Styles, and general statistics, like kill/death ratio in different modes (each different vehicle, on foot etc) as they apply to your ability and acheivements.

this way, teams can be chosen optimally and you can decide exactly what 'hero units' (FPS players, basically) to use to win your objectives

Also, im not sure if people understand, i dont want this to be a solely MP game, there are bots and AI in the game, so if you only have 1 FPS player, an RTS player can still command battalions of tanks and squadrons of aircraft which each have their own AI and will generally micromanage themselves, and a FPS player could still have a squad of AI soldiers who he can give orders to, as well as being able to call in artillery strikes etc at certain points.

phew... sorry for the long post, i just got excited for a minute there... so sue me =P if you can make any sense of what i wrote, please comment =)

Reply #10 Top

Well, Savage 2 definitely has a good example of a working form of this, so all that really remains would be changing the setting. B)  

Reply #11 Top

Lots of really good ideas here. I like the diea that the FPS guy can contact the General and say "we need air support!" so that communication works both ways.

and still manage to get a strategic objective done, the FPS player gains points (rank points, exp points, whatever kind of points i havent decided yet, some ideas would be appreciated though
End of quote

I like this alot.

you would have two profiles, one for when you play RTS and one for when you play FPS. they would be linked so people can find you easily. you would have differing statistics in both profiles, like Rank, Ability or Talent, Playing Style or Styles, and general statistics, like kill/death ratio in different modes (each different vehicle, on foot etc) as they apply to your ability and acheivements.

this way, teams can be chosen optimally and you can decide exactly what 'hero units' (FPS players, basically) to use to win your objectives
End of quote

This would work really well, imo.

i dont want this to be a solely MP game, there are bots and AI in the game, so if you only have 1 FPS player, an RTS player can still command battalions of tanks and squadrons of aircraft which each have their own AI and will generally micromanage themselves, and a FPS player could still have a squad of AI soldiers who he can give orders to, as well as being able to call in artillery strikes etc at certain points.
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This is good as it would make LAN battles work well.

I can't think of any good ideas right now, but I'm working on it :D .

 

I just came up with an idea: rather then going straight from FPS to RTS, the higher your rank, the more men under your command. A luitenant would fight like an FPS player but could give tactical commands. Eventually you become a non-cambatant who is "detached" from the battlefield. Forgive me if you have already thought of this.

Reply #12 Top

I just came up with an idea: rather then going straight from FPS to RTS, the higher your rank, the more men under your command. A luitenant would fight like an FPS player but could give tactical commands. Eventually you become a non-cambatant who is "detached" from the battlefield. Forgive me if you have already thought of this.
End of quote

idn... i wasnt thinking of this so much, i was thinking more like you can choose who plays as the RTS player and who plays as an FPS player. but yeah, the higher the rank the more tactical options (like the top rank in can call in a nuclear strike, but a lieutenant cant, or a Colonel can request tactical strikes and reinforcements, as well as use advanced weapons, while a private cant) become available, for sure, that sounds great.

im not sure if upgrades should be finite and bestowed automatically with rank, or if you should get points that you can then spend on whichever upgrade you want/is available at the time

im also not sure about whether when you reach the top rank you should be able to use all the abilities availble, or if you should only be able to choose a few... im thinking the former is better, that way its balanced... there is already enough going on without having to worry about which upgrades and abilitie you choose...

im also thinking as well as ability upgrades you could get performance upgrades, like an FPS player can get increased speed or ammo clip size or more health etc, while the RTS player can upgrade to reduced costs for buildings units etc, improved unit armor, better training (improves unit AI) etc etc. again, im thinking to have it finite and two opposing players of the top rank should have identical abilities etc, but on the other hand, two players of the same rank (say captain) can have generally similar abilities (for instance, player A chose increased speed while player B chose larger ammo clips, or player A chose level 2 artillery strike while player B chose Close Air Support bombing run) based on their choices

thanks for your support and opinions though, im glad to know im not crazy and some people actually like this idea

Reply #13 Top

i wasnt thinking of this so much, i was thinking more like you can choose who plays as the RTS player and who plays as an FPS player.
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I didn't mean over the course of a single match, I meant over a course of several skirmishes. Like a RPG element. The "choosing" system should be in quick matches. RPG style promotions etc would be in some sort of "Grand Campaign". I think both would be able to work.

im not sure if upgrades should be finite and bestowed automatically with rank, or if you should get points that you can then spend on whichever upgrade you want/is available at the time
End of quote

You should earn points as well as get some with rank, but there should still be a limit. That way you cannot be too good at everything.

Reply #14 Top

That way you cannot be too good at everything.
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yeah, i agree with that in terms of the performance upgrades (speed, ammo etc) but with the ability upgrades, like reinforcements and artillery strikes and carpet bombings etc, i think by the time you reach the top rank you should have all these abilities...

like i was saying, the better you do in combat etc, the more points, upgrades and promotions you get, so by top rank, you could get a tactical nuclear strike, but then if you perform poorly, like accidentally dropping said nuke on your own troops, you loose rank and abilities

Reply #15 Top

Yeah, getting every ability upgrade at high rank would be good. Misusing abilites and so losing them sounds interesting. Online perhaps they should be detailed records. Not just "games won" and "games lost" but also popularity, damage done to enemies etc.

For example, you might be severely outnumbered and whip the other guy for most of the match, but then you get swamped by sheer numbers and lose. This should be recorded. Rather the simple wins and loses, there should also a record of "valor" or something. Not just simply acheivements but also something more detailed.

"Player 1 caused an 2X amount of damage when outnumbered by 2:3 ratio and the enemy (player 2) caused X damage." It would be easier then watching time consuming replays. Fast forward and rewind options for replays would help this.

Its bad how in MP games a very slight loss is recorded in the same way that a noob who get pwned when refusing to listen to team mates or something. However, this might make some people refuse to quit and this would be annoying. However, if the situation is hopeless, you don't do severe damage and lose too many men, you should not get "valor".

 

 

 

Reply #16 Top

i like that idea, it would very much add to the idea of experiencing a battle. if you lose by (just to put n arbitrary value and system in here) say, 10 points or whatever, but lasted for 3 hours and caused 5000 points worth of damage and casualties, while being outnumbered and outgunned (to hypothesise a worse case scenario) you would still have it recorded as a loss, but there would be some identifiers that tell other people that you put up a hell of a fight and despite the fact that you were always going to lose, you did better than ever expected.

but to do that, i think from a programming point of view, especially and an ease of understanding on the players part, there should be some sort of arbitrary point system applied to winning, losing, objectives achieved, damage caused and taken etc etc, so its easier to understand at a glance, rather than reading a mission report. (though one of those could be available also) it would also make it easier from a programming point of view so the computer itself knows what happened and how to record it. like, a human will watch the replay and say, oh man, he lost, but he kicked ass before he went, a computer will go, did he lose? yes. battle lost, fullstop, game over... it shouldnt be like that

great ideas keep them coming

Reply #17 Top

Have a look at natural selection. They are working on a sequel using a new engine.

Basically there is an Alien team, their is a builder class and other fighting classes - other than that quite a normal fps.

The marine team has a person in RTS screen, the commander, and he drops buildings and directs the rest of the team to build and defend them.

Very fun game, haven't played it in ages though the sequel will rock.

Reply #18 Top

there should be some sort of arbitrary point system applied to winning, losing, objectives achieved, damage caused and taken etc etc, so its easier to understand at a glance, rather than reading a mission report.
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good point.

 

Have a look at natural selection. They are working on a sequel using a new engine.

Basically there is an Alien team, their is a builder class and other fighting classes - other than that quite a normal fps.

The marine team has a person in RTS screen, the commander, and he drops buildings and directs the rest of the team to build and defend them.
End of quote

Very interesting. Sound fun. I wonder if it will succeed? I hope so.