What do you guys think about the educational system?

im in the education system, as a matter of fact im smack dab in the middle (junior in high school), the way it was run, yea it sucked, its school, school isnt fun. But what sucks even more is when some administrative yahoo trys to make it more hands so they can make it "better". We learn less that just taking in the raw knowledge, take the math classes at our school, there is the hands on class which everyone hates, not because its too hard but because its too easy. It shouldnt take some screwed up story problem adventure to teach high schoolers pathagoreams thearom. I think this is a trend that society is going through like. It just feels like overprotective parents and administrators are taking over.

I like taking in straight knowledge, im in the higher classes in my school so i can avoid these "higher learning" inconviences, this is a students view on the system, it was fine how it was...

Making schools 'Better' usually means more memorization for the students. Or maybe some more tests. (yeah you can memorize this but can you spit it back out in an hour?... again?)


I am all for the portfolio system. It is not easy, but you learn more and you might actually like it. Plus it is at your own pace.

I like hand on myself, but in my opinion in the portfilio system, the student take more control of how they learn so if straight forward is better then you do it.

Funny, College is easier then because of this (although its tough in the beginning cause your used to some one else on your back instead of yourself) and grad school is the best because of this. I'm learning more now then I ever did. The strange thing is I'll finish faster at the pace I am going

Im home-schooled but went to public school there for 5yrs...And with 2yrs of Private school mixed in. Here in hawaii, the Public schools are just pathetic. (For various reasons such as the very real possibility of getting severely beaten-up...) Homeschooling is the best out of the three IMO. You get to work at your own pace without waiting for bubba in the back row to grasp the concept of 2+2. You can take a break pretty much whenever you feel the need to, and you get to choose your own curriculum. Im in 10th grade doing 'Saxon' Advanced Mathematics (Comes after Algebra 2) which is not really 'fun' with cute and colorful drawings...but I dont hate it either. And when youre done with your work...youre done. Now waiting for the schoolbus to come and pick you up for the 30+min drive home. Many of my friends finish their work before 2pm and have the rest of the day to do whatever they want. Also, I know a girl who just finished 10th grade...(Was doing the same math as me, but she was 1yr ahead in other subjs.)...and went straight to a community college. She's 15 and takes college classes and gets college credits while the rest of us have to finish high-school. IMHO, Homeschool is the way to go.

IMHO, Homeschool is the way to go.

When Old Crab graduated from The University Of Houston it was refered to as "Cougar High". Much has changed for the ed system some for the better and unfortunately for the worse. There is no quick fix except for the one each individual makes to change or to better ones self through the ed process or as an individual personal choice. Just Think. >

I agree with you Joe, especially the "outcome-based education" agenda that seems to advocate the "dumbing-down" of America's children. That's why we're home schooling our 7 year old son. (Can't understand why he's becoming a computer geek, though)
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Perhaps the british educational system has more of a handle on things then. Far from being perfect tho, it does encourage team work and working with partners. Desks are seldom set in rows in a primary school and often uses hands on experience to aid learning. The problem s britain is often the lack of parental support!

Those schoolgirl days...

Of biting nails and holding hands are goh-oh-on...

[OK, so it's done from memory]...

I think the school system and what you get out of it has a couple main factors:

1) Where the school is (which effects student to teacher ratio)

2) How involved the parent(s) are with the child.

I live in a small community that has lots of interaction with the kids.  There are also very small classroom sizes and advanced classes in high school.

But, teaching doesn't end at school.  The parents involvement in the process is needed.

i would not home school (past the obvious reason that I work) because I have an only child and I feel that social learning is an extremely important factor.  You have to deal with people in unpleasant situations all the time.  The diversity of public schools also teaches how to interact socially.

Why is it that tests are being made easier?

Is it because kids are dumb?
Parents don't take an active part in a child's education? (I think I might honestly have been the last real generation of this.)
Teachers REALLY hate their jobs because they get paid crap these days?

I've seen the Mass graduation exam (I have a nephew in High School) at my old school. Its the most rediculous test known to man, to fail it, you'd have to be illiterate.

And IMO if a kid can make it through school illiterate like apparently happens, then the teachers should be fired for not picking up on it.

The US education system needs some serious revamping. There's just too many new issues popping up that the current system can't handle, between the ever increasing peer pressure on kids, to the blatant fact that teachers just don't care anymore. Or the fact that parents have to work harder these days so they just don't have as much time for their kids as it used to be in the past.

#11 by Doomgaze - 7/30/2003 7:17:13 AM ....Or the fact that parents have to work harder these days so they just don't have as much time for their kids as it used to be in the past.

I really think that this plays a major role. When I grew up, it was normal for Moms to stay home or to only work part time. It seems like the norm is now a two income family, which allows for less time for everything. You end up with a lot of latch key kids and parents who are too tired to pay attention when they get home (it's hard enough just to get dinner on the table some days.) (BTW, in case anyone wondered, I am not into Women's lib in the slightest... but don't get me started on that one.....)

It was the same for me Karma, my mother worked nights in the ER so she was around most of the time during the day, and during the summer we spent 3-6 weeks (nevermind spring/fall weekends) on our sailboat cruising.

Although some of the places I've been on the boat (from the Chesapeake up to Canada) cruising was worth far more of an education than any schooling was.

My parents beleived in going places and learning things... Lots of trips to museams, places like Mystic Seaport in CT, to as far as having been an assistant instructor in Outward Bound, and racing sailboats for far too many years.

Your parents obviously had more money than mine  because there is no way that we could have afforded to travel around, sail or even take many trips to local interests.  But, my Mom was always at home when I got home from school and always made sure we got our homework done and always asked "what did you do today?"  We also spent the entire summer at the local beach (which was a large lake fed by Lake Michigan) which was cheap but gave us something to do (was really cold, too!).

Parents are a key factor ina childs education and sadly 2 parent homes either bother work or one is missing in action for verious reasons.


What amazes me is that there have been many studies and conclusions for that matter on how children learn yet it has not been translated to the school system.

I said it before and I'll say it again; The school system focuses to much on memorization and timed tests.
==============================
Education is not about spitting back out data that was instructed by a 'teacher'.


Aslo there is to much focus on the teacher and not enough on the students helping each other out. Working in groups, answering each others questions in class, real field trips, writing more often is more key then making more tests.


I think what will help the system is a change from structured teacher/student classes to children/student (after a specific grade maybe) centered education where the student is the facilitator more than the teacher.


Self-Study: Be in charge of their own studies to a point

Group-Study: Work in teams to discover more than what would be found alone

Srtuctured-Study: Be taught in a way that puts it into memory because you don't want/need to understand why it is (or the theory or it), you just need to know it.

Ex.

E=MC^2
DNA
History of Physics



This is why I think portfolio style education will work for most (and other can get more structured education if they want).

I think the biggest problem is the teachers. I go to a private school, so I don't know about public schools. (Although public school teachers in my state are some of the lowest paid in the nation, and public school teachers in my parish are some of the lowest paid in the state.) Most of the teachers at my school expect you to simply memorize exactly what they tell you. Your teacher says something wrong and you speak out? Punishment, plus you are expected to write the WRONG answer on a test. You have an opinion on a subject? You are disrupting the class and should keep your opinions to yourself. It really sucks when you are smarter than your teacher...

Weird, everytime I have corrected the a teacher, he or she take what I suggest into consideration and admit to their error upon finding my insight is correct.

Heh, well I do go to a school with about 700 students in all. (Grades PK-12!!!) It really sucks when you live in the middle of nowhere, too...

I've been out of school for a year now. Graduated from college in 2002. I went to a k-5 grade school, then a 6-8 middle school, and then a 9-12 high school. My graduating class in high school was about 1000 students.

Take it from a teacher by trade, I've taught in both the public and the private sector. Yes, the education system would seriously need some updating. The lecture structure dates from way back in ancient Greece, and while it might have been the best way before is not the case now.
But there a will to change. Computers are making their way into the classrooms, but unfortunately there is a lot of resistance coming from both the parents and the teachers.
There has been some reform attempts. For example, in Quebec, there is one on the table right now. A big one too. The whole system would change if/when it comes in place. The governement suggests to "projectize" the subjects. Meaning, instead of learning things for for the sake of learning, to insert the whole curriculum into a project, mixing many subjects into the project. Give the learning a reason to be. Another part of reform affects the sacred report cards. It is asked that report cards now be qualitative, not quantitative. Be objective oriented. Instead of having a percentage, detail in the report cards what were the objectives of the semester and how they were achieved by the student. Where did he/she fail? Where should he improve? Think about it, if you pass your grade with a 60% average, that means that you did not understand 40% of what was tought to you. Yet, you are going to go into the next grade, where it will be assumed that you learned everything fromt he previous grade. You are not going to understand some news things because they are directly linked to your knowing some of the 40% of things you didn't understand. So, you will pass this grade with 60% again if you're lucky. Now you didn't understand 40% of one grade and 40% of the other grade, it all accumulates, but you keep graduating. Anyway, reforms are suggested but they are often received very negatively by both the teachers (mainly the older ones) and the parents. Teachers complain that they weren't trained for that new system, that it will bring extra work. Understandable in a way since, contrarely to common belief, teachers work darn hard. 60 to 70 hours weeks is not uncommon (counting class preparation and corrections). Another resistance come from the parents who often think competively. They don't want to know how good their kid is doing with the objectives given, they want to know how good he is doing compared with his classmates. They want a number. They want 80%, 90%. They don't want to read 5 pages of details explaining where the kid did good and where he could improve.

Yes, our education system needs to evolve. Yes it needs a major revision. But the problem is that people are stuck in the old ways. It's hard to break away from what you are used to.

From a person whose kids are home schooled. You will never have reform when the education system is a monopoly run by those with the most to lose if the system is opened up to competition. To send a child to private school now requires one to pay for his child's education twice. Most people can not afford to do that so there is no incentive for change. The money still keeps flowing without any accountability. And the teachers and administrators know this, it would shock you to learn how many high paid education administrators send there kids to private school.

paxx said it better than I did.

The portfolio system I think, would be better. Instead of focusing on comparing a student to another, focus on the student getting better. More like instead of comparing a student to an achiever, help the student to know how to achieve.

The Bell system of grading (where someone has to fail, some are exceptional and everyone esle in the mojority is average) is not very helpful and is pretty objective as far as knowledge or potential.

I think we all know how to pass a test. Memorize the subject. Take the test and hold what you know long enough for it.

Then forget about it.

With portfolio learning you have more options to learn (direct or through projects and group/team work) and are graded on how well you have do (and I mean you not you against Tommy Jones)

It is either repeat, satifactory or well done. You can have a long eplaination detail or a simple idea of how to improve.

Through portfolio you learn what it really takes to be a worker of today as well as have the ability to take care of yourself tomorrow

1) Read/writing
2) Ability to search/research/query
3) Ability to put things together into information
4) Ask a educated question
5) Work in team dynamics

I think this way there is more of a chance of knowing a subject and even having fealings about it then just taking a course.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/31/nyregion/31PUSH.html?ex=1060920000&en=85145ed218fd8ab1&ei=5004&partner=UNTD

You should be able to read that because it has the Juno link.

Very interesting and somewhat related to this topic. (Can't wait to tell Mom, many students were kicked out of school for interesting reasons)

You know, the funny thing about GED programs is that for most of the teens and even adults, it is harder. Your expected to track yourself and be prepared for class. Grade school really does not inforce self study and managing time (or should I say teach it constuctively)

so they go there to find out it will take them years to finish.


I would guess this is why half the US population has an IQ of 100 or less... maybe?

I think I'm ranting again... I need to do some homework.