Well Fuzzy.. it's the way the world works. Sometimes the good have to clean up after the bad. Call us "litter patrol"

As I have said before, It's not up to us to make up for the shortcomings of others.

However, each individual must examine their own conscious... But be careful not to examine too close. Under such a spotlight most fall short

As I have said before, It's not up to us to make up for the shortcomings of others.

Are you saying that if someone throws trash on my neighbors lawn that it is bad for me to pick it up? This is essentially what we are doing.

My concious is clean as a whistle when it comes to how I rate and the comments I leave. Until recently I had never in my four year history left negative comments. However that is a whole different rant.

Anywho, I do what I think is fair. I don't indiscriminatly run around giving 10s where a 10 is not due. It's just that when I notice something that LOOKS like abuse, I do what I can to somewhat rectify it.

DWM, I fully agree with you. There is nothing wrong with trying to fix something that someone else wrongly messed up.

So if my salary is paid short this month you will make up the shortfall? I can see why the rating system is such a mess. It seems clear a number of people are willing to falsify ratings so the overall rating agrees with their opinion of what it should be.

"I see a skin. I think it should be a 7. But oh dear, someone has given it a 5, so therefore I will give it a 9 so the skin has the 7 rating I think it should have".

How ludicrous and arrogant. I hope the admins are taking notice of all this.

Those are your words, not mine, Fuzzy.

Fuzzy: I am sure that admins by now have compiled a black list of raters who have spoken in this thread. All these raters will be mailed soon and will be brainwashed with the rules of your perfect world.

[Message Edited]

Fuzzy, I tweak a few points when I see abuse. A 5 on what I feel is a 7 skin isn't real abuse. Sheesh man, try to stay in the real world.

This was meant to be a friendly debate but I see you've tried to twist it into something that suits your needs and expectations. I won't be a part of any mellowdramitic nonsense thus I am done with this thread. It's people with your attitude that make this messageboard a bad place to be.
[Message Edited]

Nah, DaWebMassa. I am sure Fuzzy didn't mean it that strong. We all have some very strong opnions about matters like this. I was a little bit harsh on my comments towards Fuzzy too. I shouldn't have worded it like that. But I felt the "admins take notice" part was a bit over the the top. Sorry, Fuzzy.

[Message Edited]

How ludicrous and arrogant. I hope the admins are taking notice of all this.

Ice, that is the statement I took umbridge to. This was obviously a below the belt poke. Arrogant is something I am far from and as the matter stands, I choose not to be involved in a name calling session.

We are (thinking) that maybe fuzzy logic is just frustrated that people have begun to rate differently than they normally would just to make up for one person's rate that was perhaps deemed inappropriate.

Unfortunately this grows from lack of rates altogether...so a LOT of rates on a skin will make it much more fair in the end result than only a few rates. Hence, why popular authors often keep their TEN ratings here and other n00bs here may lose their good rating to only one bad rating and that's why maybe top authors or big names don't see this as a problem because enough of their buddies rate (rightfully good marks) for their excellent skins but don't suffer the hazard of one crappy rate bringing them down so low. But this should be ultimately up to the skinner to bring to the attention to an admin (hopefully privately) to resolve the sitch if it is found to be WAY off the mark to such an extent.

It certainly would be *nice* if raters all rated the same way...but as the current way is...everyone rates according to their own opinion.
Maybe to encourage more folks to rate and that their rating really FX ppl have something like:
If you have the ability to rate this skin please do...it means a lot to the skinners/artists here and effects how their work will be viewed and sorted! Please be honest in your evaluation. Thank you!
-also-
Perhaps in the not so distant future there will be an ability to rate something like this on each skin or wall:

Color: 1-10
Design: 1-10
Usability: 1-10
Complexity:1-10
etc. etc. etc. 1-10
Then mathematically narrow the overall score to one number...(ya get the idea).

But that's just an imperfect example but maybe it would make people have to really THINK and evaluate just a little bit more and put some time and effort into it.

Ah well. We tried.

PS: Also a rating system such as the one we mentioned would give a skinner/artist the ability to see what needs improvement or why they might have gotten a low mark on something i.e. the color was awful but the rest of the skin was great. Some folks WILL rate a skin based on color alone and this kind of rating system would give the person a chance to rate the color but ALSO rate the rest of the skin and not JUST a single aspect of it. hmm?

It seems that there is a new system in the making and that Frogboy will announce that soon. I have heard Jafo telling that twice. It would be a good idea to announce that sooner than later, although T-man is now on vacation so, it may take a while before it gets implemented.

#38 by MadIce - 8/2/2003 3:15:54 PM
It seems that there is a new system in the making and that Frogboy will announce that soon. I have heard Jafo telling that twice. It would be a good idea to announce that sooner than later, although T-man is now on vacation so, it may take a while before it gets implemented.


Sounds promising!

just a thouht here, y cant they make it so if u rate some1, have it show in the comments area 4 every1 2 c, would help keep ppl honest, anyway, just a thought, b4n.

denny

I don’t know how exactly people base their ratings or what do they look for in a design to rate it. I base my ratings on originality, colors and usability; of course I try to stay in the vicinity of the previous ratings given by others. So if I see a design and I think it deserves a 7, but the previous ratings have been 8-9, I will fairly give it an 8. I do find rather unpleasant to know that someone gave a 5 rating to a design that for the most part have gotten 8-9. Again, people might use a different technique when rating.
I think an admin or moderator should be contacted when a design is suspected of wrong rating, and let the admin or moderator look at what individual rated maliciously and remove the rating privileges

Hmmm, just a few thoughts:

Isn't it a truly subjective thing wether you like a skin or not and therefore think it is worth a 5 or 8 or whatever?

Are the people who rate obliged to give good ratings just because the skin was made by someone well known? (please don't get me wrong here; I love Starone's work and this has nothing to do with what I personally think about her and her work)

If only journeyman and above can rate and someone gets a bad rating; will everyone start to bash the journeymen?

Fact is: even if your skin is an excellent one, there are always people who do not like it for various reasons. Linking the rating system to compulsory comments (as mentioned on another thread) would at least give the artist an idea which part of it might need improvement. And if someone leaves just a "I just don't like it, full stop" comment with a very bad rating; that is something that could be easily picked up by the admins.

think an admin or moderator should be contacted when a design is suspected of wrong rating, and let the admin or moderator look at what individual rated maliciously and remove the rating privileges

Exactly my point. Dubious ratings are the province of an admin. It isn't up to the individual to 'make up' for such a rating. Ratings should be awarded on merit and not for any other reason. Seems to me it's time ratings were made public, that would put an end to this once and for all.

The more people who rate skins, the more meaningful ratings become.

If anyone thinks a skin has gotten a malicious rating they should email an admin to look into it.

David is 100% correct,The law of averages takes effect when you have more input.

Are the people who rate obliged to give good ratings just because the skin was made by someone well known?

Aufisch, this is exactly what it’s been targeted and the reason why a different system it’s been sought. A rating should not be based on what artist created the design. The rating should be based on how the design appeals to the individual. For the most part, designs [wallpapers] are rated basically on colors, resolution quality and originality. Skins ratings would be based on colors, originality, performance and available features.
A lot of people would rate a design right off the bat with out even downloading and trying it; this alone would count for an unfair rating. Others would rate unfairly just out of despise.
Hopefully the system that is going to be implemented would solve all this.
And as you said, leaving a comment to the artist in regards to what part of his or her design needs improvement, would have better results than just giving the design a low rating.

Exactly my point. Dubious ratings are the province of an admin. It isn't up to the individual to 'make up' for such a rating. Ratings should be awarded on merit and not for any other reason. Seems to me it's time ratings were made public, that would put an end to this once and for all.

Moderators who rejected walls for an example receive hate mail. A reason for them to not write a rejection mail. The same will be true for public raters. Or if someone favors a friend by rating then who is to know if the 10 given is real or just a gift to a friend. In my opnion public rating will lead to witch hunts. There for ratings should not be public. There is a system to circumvent that, which I proposed in another thread. However, Frogboy rejected that.

Besides discussion like these do not help in any way, because it seems Frogboy already dreamed up a new system which should end various problems discussed on WC. This was several times (twice I think) mentioned by Jafo. I looks like all we can do is to wait for the introduction of this new system.

Brad [Frogboy] has proposed [privately] a quite viable solution which if I had the balls would try to pretend was mine and take the Kudos....but he's tougher and younger than me... I'll leave that for him to mention as and when it's appropriate....

The above is a quote from Jafo in post #133 in Adni's "Hello!" thread.

Matthijs...only trying to show that we are conscientiously looking into solutions to all the concerns....that these discussions do NOT fall on deaf ears....

I'm sure whatever is decided it will be the subject of another debate, sigh.

It would be nice to have a system fair to all which people use in a responsible manner.