Frogboy Frogboy

Good & Bad Karma in Net Communities

Good & Bad Karma in Net Communities

Good & Bad Karma In Net Communities

“Why does everyone hate me?”

If you hang out in a net community long enough, eventually you will have those who just don’t like you. The technical term I use for them are detractors and they fall into 3 categories:

  • Passive detractors. These are people who, if exposed to something you write, will tend to criticize it, even “unfairly.”
  • Active detractors. These are people who will go out of their way to “stalk”  you on a particular site or news group to flame you.
  • Motivated detractors. These are people who dislike you so much that they are actually willing to put in effort to do you harm. They’re the guy who will contact your ISP, start a home page dedicated to attacking you, create posts and threads about you.

No matter how nice you are, no matter how pleasant you are, you will eventually have detractors if you hang out long enough. Each time you do something publicly, you are putting out what we’ll call “Karma”.  Everything you do generates both good and bad karma.

Good karma makes people like you. Bad karma makes people not like you. But everything will generate both. Even a simple “Hi everyone!” post in a thread will generate some bad karma. Why? Because there is always someone, somewhere that is going to be offended by something you write no matter how innocuous. Some people don’t like happy people for instance. Some people get mad at “noise” being posted in a thread.

The goal isn’t to eliminate bad karma. The only way to do that is to not participate. The goal is to try to control how much you put out.

Understanding communities

I’ve been involved in on-line communities for 17 years. And I mean involved as in daily postings via modem onto bulletin boards and such.  I started out on BBSes back when I was 15 years old in 1986 (300 baud modems). I have always enjoyed interacting with people around the world.

At the same time, I’ve always held strong opinions and because of constant activity for 17 years, my typing speed has slowly increased to the point that I now type 130 words per minute if I am in a hurry.

As a result, I’ve gotten my share of detractors. No one has created a website dedicated to flaming me or anything (yet) but I’ve come to understand what patterns of behavior generate detractors fastest.

Every net community has 5 basic types. (here is a link to a site that lists lots of different categories of net users but they boil down to these 5 really: http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html). My type is here: http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame21.html (except I know why I get loathed on occasion! J ).

1)      The Contributor. This is the most common type of person participating in a community. They are a friendly, well adjusted people who see participating in an on-line community as an extension of their social life. Good karma and bad karma don’t affect them that much. Abrasiveness and other factors tend to slide off them pretty well.

2)      The Mover. The mover is the type of person who wants to help shape the course of events. They’re a leader of sorts but more to the point, they work to organize the community to do various things. These activities make them a natural target.

3)      The Wannabe. The wannabe might as well be called the “Anti-Mover”. They don’t really want to put in the work to be a mover but they want the respect and admiration that movers get. Therefore, they try to tear down their opponents for moral lapses (real or imagined). Those who oppose them aren’t just wrong, they’re evil.

4)      The Critic. This is the person who tends to want to criticize things or “Suggest” things all the time. They’re not trolls because they honestly want to “help” the community.

5)      The Troll.  This is a pretty universally understood term. These are the guys who see other people as part of a video game. They subconsciously dehumanize their targets. Their goal is to generate enjoyment for themselves at the expense of others.

Most people exhibit multiple traits at different times. You mix these primary colors to together and you get the couple dozen types found on the flame warriors page.

Understanding Karma

So you’ve been posting on a news group or web forum for 2 years. You’ve never flamed anyone.  You see a “flamewar” going on and you go on and try to play the roll of diplomat only to get flamed for “no good reason”. What happened? You tell yourself that it’s like interfering with two wild dogs, don’t get in the middle. But that’s not really the cause.

As mentioned in the introduction, everytime you post you generate karma. Both good and bad. And it builds up over time with other people. The problem with net communities is that they provide an incomplete picture of a person. As a result, as bad karma builds up, people will tend to ascribe to you personality traits that may have nothing to do with what you’re like as a person.

So the person who tries to peacefully resolve a dispute may get flamed because he (usually a she actually) is thought of by the regulars as being “aloof” or “holier than thou”. In this example, it might be because those who get involved in trying to resolve a net dispute may in fact come across as trying to force their belief system on others. Some people, after all, like to debate.

But let’s go with some practical data.

When you post you can break down what you write in terms of these factors that can generate bad karma:

  • Abrasiveness. How rude do your writings come across to others?

  • Wordy. People who write long posts tend to generate more bad karma because it subconsciously makes people think that you believe your posts are so important that they should be willing to invest significant time to read what you write.

  • Special Treatment. Does your post flaunt in some way special privilidges in people’s faces? For instance, in a post I made recently on WC, my posting editor is an HTML editor. I pasted my last post right from MS Word. This had the unintentional effect of having my font larger than others. Most users only get to put in text. So I was “flaunting” my special priviledges. This will generate bad karma, especially when used frivolously. Or maybe you’re a moderator on a website. Don’t make threats or remind people that you’re a moderator unless you have to.

  • Double Standards. Lots of people have a standard of behavior for themselves and one for other people. That standard is usually pretty lax on themselves and very strict on others. This can irritate people quite quickly.

  • Arrogance. Do your posts imply that you are more knowledgeable than others? Do you treat those who disagree with you as being ignorant, unenlightened, or unable to comprehend your “wisdom”?

  • Noise. Do your posts tend to take a thread off topic or add nothing constructive? Females tend to fall into this a lot. In the middle of a thread discussing the Presidential Race, a female is much more apt to jump in and say “Hi Bobby! How you been?”

  • Do you post things on topics that you financially benefit from? Someone who sells cell phone accessories hanging out talking in a cell phone accessory forum might be quite knowledgeable but it will still generate hostility from some people (or people who are involved in making customization software for a living participating in customization forums).

  • Judgmental. Do you tend to make judgments on things that you really don’t have all the information on or don’t really know what you’re talking about?

  • Melodramatic. Do your posts tend to overstate the importance of the topic? Or spend a lot of time talking about how some relatively insignificant thing was the end of the world? Do you make “Goodbye” posts on websites when something on a website has offended you? Basically, are you posting to get attention or are you posting to interact with others?

In the cold hard statistical world, you can almost imagine having points assigned to each of these characteristics. Each time you post, you can almost imagine a -1 karma simply for doing anything at all and then various larger negative points if your post contains any of the above.

Repeat the cycle enough times (i.e. be active in a community) and voila, eventually a detractor is born.

And there is another factor that compounds the situation. Ideology.  Most users don’t have a hard ideology. But some people are really set off by certain things.

For instance, talk about commercial software in an open source area and the ideology multiplier really takes off. Money is often a real ideology multiplier. Some people just hate the idea of other people making money. This is particularly true of Europeans for some reason (statistically speaking, the bulk of my active detractors have, for whatever reason, been European over the years). 

But there are plenty of other ideologies. Religion. Politics. Operating Systems. Child Care. Etc.

Controlling Bad Karma

I say controlling because sometimes you just can’t avoid producing bad karma.  Or maybe you simply make the judgment that you would rather produce some bad karma than not participate.

For instance, my public activity, as myself, on our websites produces not just negative karma but probably costs sales. But I’ve made the personal decision that I would rather participate, as myself, than use an alias and lose a few customers and generate a few detractors than to hide behind an alias.  Same thing on other websites. I love talking about and making desktop enhancements and PC games so much I made those two things my career. So whenever I talk about these things on-line, I’m creating higher than average negative karma because I indirectly benefit from the topics at hand.

The same goes for other traits. Are you opinionated? I sure am. And being opinionated means you’ll generate some bad karma since you’ll get zinged for some amounts of arrogance and other traits.

The goal isn’t to eliminate, if you know what things to look for, and how to avoid offending someone’s ideology if you can, then you can keep the amount of detractors to a level you can live with.

The more negative karma your posts generate, the more important it is that you have an idea how much they do generate and who is your audience. I.e. you don’t want to turn detractors into active or motivated detractors if possible.

With these things in mind, hopefully you will find having a long term presence in a net community to be enjoyable and rewarding. I know I have. I’ve learned a lot, mostly the hard way, over the years about this kind of thing.  Hopefully you’ll find this helpful.

9,722 views 29 replies
Reply #26 Top
I was in fact talking to Frogboy, but now that you all have entered this thread with your rhetoric, I feel that you deserve a response. Frank.... Yes I am the husband of Chichigirl, First thing you should do is find out all of the particulars before you start your name calling, If you can't do that, then at least try to contain your remarks or at least comment on the thread..... Oh btw, I do have a pretty good perception of the world... and for your information, It's a much larger place than what you see through that porthole your looking through..... Emily, did you even take the time to read this thread??? apparently not..... IPlural, your right, it wasn't a joke, but your statement " Not once, ever, have I read anything where Brad dicates anything to anyone on a personal level." end of quote.... leaves a lot to be desired... You better think about that for awhile.... China, yes your right, Charo was noted for her Goochi Goochi...

Getting back to this thread.... Frogboy, there are two things I would really like you to address....

1) Can you put this into perspective with your encounter with Chichigirl?
Quote: "So the person who tries to peacefully resolve a dispute may get flamed because he (usually a she actually) is thought of by the regulars as being "aloof" or "holier than thou". In this example, it might be because those who get involved in trying to resolve a net dispute may in fact come across as trying to force their belief system on other. Some people, after all, like to debate." End of quote.....
An e-mail would be just great...

2) Your comment #2 of this thread...... I fully agree with the first part of your statement. However, I for one would not like to see you leave the "boards" completely.... After all, you do contribute a great deal to the community as a whole.... IMO, You just have to lighten up a little.......
Reply #27 Top
Actually you've a history of disgruntled feeling towards Brad from my understanding of what others have commented upon in private. The comments happened to have come after my first post to this thread.

On your point;
leaves a lot to be desired... You better think about that for awhile


There are many factors involved with this perception of mine as far as Brad goes.
Some of which are as following.

1. Brad is in fact the owner of and pays all the bills for the hardware and pipeline for this site.

2. When we have joined the site we assume a certain amount of leeway on voicing our opinions on the direction and evolution of it. But at all time it is only an opinion.

3. When we have paid for a subscription membership we have a right to it's use, our opinion is still just an opinion, we have not purchased any rights to the hardware or pipeline, administration, control or ownership in any way.

4. I have in fact come across points where I thought Brad had forgotten which hat he was wearing when posting but at the same time I have seen many time where members see him wearing every freaking hat on the rack or they decide to reach up and slap at the one Brad happens to be wearing at the moment and generally do not like the out come.

Boundaries are really a simple thing which are so simple that kittens and puppies pick them up within hours or a matter of days. You would think humans wouldn't have that hard a time wrapping their minds around the concept, *think* being the operative word.

You know the funny thing is I am not all that sure what Brad's opinion is of me and frankly it doesn't matter to me. I respect him and those who administrate this site and also code the programs produced by the parent company Stardock. This alone is enough to indicate when I am crossing a line and stepping past boundaries.

Hobnobber I do not know you or your wife, I have not read anything you have ever posted and do not have a clue as to your status as a member, skinner, wall artist, themer or what have you.

What I did get from your post to this thread is that you have a serious dislike of Brad for whatever reason which is personal. That is your right without a doubt and so is voicing it. But it can not be that great a dislike or you would not come to the site and make use of the message board. That or you would not have contact with Brad in any manner, to do so is nothing more than an attempt to instigate conflict which would be and is petty.

I'll stand by my first and following posts with the comfort that I am not looking with closed eyes and in my own ability to see things as I see them. But thank you for the option.


BTW: If you were speaking to Brad in a public forum not expecting any periphial comments your simpler than I'd expect. You have his email address without a doubt and you have used it again without a doubt, though there might be a filter on incoming mail from you on his end I am sure.
So I am sure you intened for just the affect your post triggered again without a doubt.

[Message Edited]
Reply #28 Top
My view on "Good & Bad Karma in Net Communities"...

Life's too short to dance with the ugly ones.