My response to those who clamor for the 'fairness' of equal representation in the classroom is that if they want to teach creationism alongside evolution, then creationism should be subject to exactly the same degree of scientific rigor that evolution is subject to.

Even apart from all the framework of theorems, hypotheses, and observational evidence, one of the primary tenets of scientific rigor is the concept of disprovability.

Without getting into the boring parts, what disprovability means is that the premise needs to be at least theoretically capable of being proved wrong (whether through further observation, refined theories, etc.).

It's a clear bet that the creationists would be singularly unwilling to place the concept of creation (and therefore, God), as being disprovable. Even if it were possible to disprove God, they would balk at the result.

Simply put, the creation story is a matter of faith, and should be taught in the venue of that faith.

But isn't both creationism as well as evolutionism both taught in school? The former in religion class and the latter in science class.

paxx in my state of maryland, there was no such thing as religion class in school. And to be perfectly honest, neither were taught at all.

Seems to me they should teach religeous studies right along beside history and social studies.How can you possibly separate them?If everyone understood how other people believe,we might be more tolerant and get along better.
(Hi there X)

What if everyone's right? Is it possible that all of these theories and beliefs can co-exist, or do they all cancel each other out? Perhaps the Christians were created by God, but the Athiests evolved.

Actually, I think the story goes that Adam and Eve were created by God, and at the time I don't believe they had any religious affiliation. After millenia of procreation a group called the Israelites emerged, and well, the story just takes off from there.......

#230 by Citizen grayhaze - 9/14/2003 3:09:57 PM What if everyone's right? Is it possible that all of these theories and beliefs can co-exist, or do they all cancel each other out? Perhaps the Christians were created by God, but the Athiests evolved.

I like that, except I now can't figure out where agnostics came from....... 

paxx, I know of no school that has a religion class (other than private, religion based schools).

Koasati, unless things have changed in the few years it is since I went to school, most schools in the UK teach Religious Education. The subject covers most religions and their beliefs.

I've seen enough of this sick world to know exactly where man's origins lie...

Yes, I remember RE at school. I remember also commenting in one of my essays that I thought we were supposed to be at school to learn fact rather than fiction.

All primitive cultures need something almighty to explain away ordinary things they don't understand. Once man evolves into a more knowledgeable being such relics of the past will no longer be of importance.

Hum unless it changed recently, we still have religion taught in school in Quebec. Except non-religious kids had the choice of taking "morals" instead, which was basically very similar to religion class (catholic) but without any notion of God. Same values were taughts though.

Paxx,
hehe
not only did we not get religious studies, I can assure you we didn't get values or morals either


Please tell me I am not the only one that was so crudely educated!
I had
no religious studies
no morals
no values
and no evolution either.

I had none of those in school either Xerraire....... those things were up to our parents.

K...
Well I got loads of that from my parents, yes indeed.
I am glad you did too.

We were taught evolution in science class. A fellow student stood up at the beginning of that lesson. (He was a member of that religion that likes to come to your door at the worst times, you know the ones,...I'll give you a hint.....the Jimi Hendrix song All Along the Watchtower ). Then he began to protest the teaching of evolution without his being allowed to teach a lesson on creationism.

The teacher slapped him down immediately. Told him it was not his class to teach. Everyone in the class applauded.

Creation just seems cooler than evolution. Evolution has too many syllables.

...lets not talk about the separation of church and state.


[Message Edited]

It seems kind of pointless to even discuss this. After all, nothing (absolutely nothing) can be proven with a metaphysical certainty (beyond a shadow of a doubt). After all, the entire universe might be the product (or illusion being projected) of a brain in a vat, somewhere.

This is an interesting read...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF&catID=2

BTW, I'm an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac....I stay up all night wondering if there really is a dog

mmm, my mother taught Sunday School and my brother was an alter bot, Red dress with White Smock over the top of it ( used to pick on him about it until he would hit me )...

It is not only death insurance it is also better than Ajax cause it takes all stain out...

People can do as they like 6 days a week and on the 7 th bow their head and be free to walk out the door ready for another week of Do Unto others and then split...

Not all, but many and most of those in my life...

Once humanity can get past having to have someone to pass things on they do not wish to deal with and also accept the fact that they own their actions and no one else has that responsibility things might change. Until they it not only functions as death insurance, and co-dependency but at also has the value added feature of giving reason to go out and kill others in many instances...

I remember after 9/11 on the CNN chat and reading as all these people ranted about having to kill Muslims because they wanted to kill use first. That the whole religion must be destroyed and the people converted to Christianity for the worlds sake.

Kinda sat me back on my heals reading that crap, It also pretty much proved to me that we have just as many fanatics running around ( at least in type on the net where it is safe to be a fanatic ) as any other religion. But that the biggest difference is, the Islamic Fanatics are ready to kill or die to put their fanaticism into action, and those on the net wanted others to do it for them.

Anyone notice how frantic people get over Movies, Game System Games, PC Games, TV and such and how it is destroying the moral fiber of this nation. How it is the cause for kids killing kids, or the ones out robbing people and such. Yet at the magical age of ( 17 to enter the Armed Services ) and 18 ( to be in action and War Zones )
the once fledgling child whom needed those peoples protection from the nasty evil media turn around and find nothing wrong with them going off to kill and die as long as it suites their purposes?

anyway...

To many things, to many people, to many religions, lots of Creating and not enough Evolutions, seems to me...

So clearly after all these posts, Evolution is the way to go.

Ha-ha, Praise Him! You got to Believe!

I certainly learned a thing or two about some details of both topics. Books to read and sites to have a look at.

The path toward enlightenment continues...

exactly and will continue until the end...

But what if there is no end?

paxx go away...

hehe

if there is no end we sure will be in trouble drinking, eating and breathing since our water, food and air are getting pretty messed up by us monkeys causing us to live much shorter lives...

/me see the life expectancy of humans one day being 5 years old...

Oh, there probably will be and end to humain life eventually. But other life on earth will continue on.

Say, I have a question to biblically savvy people.  It's a question that hit me the first time I read the Bible.  It's been a while so I forget exactly, but one thing intrigued me. The old Testament describes the hebrews as the chosen people, as the children of God, and he guides them to the promise land.  But there is a part in the Bible where it describes other people. They are described as savages, cruel and with no values. These are not hebrews and not children of God. ....   Where do they come from? Who made them? 

actually don't laugh too hard about that, I can't remember what grade but I had to write an paragraph about what I thought the future would be like and me being shy would not stand up in front of the class so the teacher read it outloud for me and the class laughed and in it, I said in the future we would be paying for pure air cuz the air would be so bad we would have to pay for it

and I seen a shop over here a couple years back that ppl are going into to pay for pure oxygen to breath for 15-20 or so mins on their lunch hours to rejuvenate their minds and body during their work days at lunch time... weird huh? (insert twilight music here)

Hmm I don't know since I am not Bible savvy (I've only skimmed over the Bible) I never really read much of any books cuz I cannot stay still behind them I'm too distracted but sounds like just ppl that turned their face away from God?