Iben

Join Date 09/2002

+56

Self driving cars

You've been warned

Will a self driving car be able to see in dense fog in the day time?
I use fog lights and slow down.
What happens when the detector can't see but the brain box thinks it still can?
Human drivers know from instinct what other human drivers might do in many
driving situations. Human drivers can't predict what self driving cars will do,
adding another layer of uncertainty and possible chaos to a human's drive.
How many miles have the people driven who think self driving cars is a good idea?
When given a split second choice will the self driving car hit a cow or the bus?
I'll take the cow choice and aim for anything but dead center.
Will a self driving car even know one is a bus and one is a cow and take into
account the speed, direction, weight and possible passengers of each choice?
Cruise control for the gas is all I would use and have used, I would never feel safe in a self driving car.
They are crazy.

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LightStar

Join Date 12/2002

+1469

Self driving cars are stupid and idiotic, period!

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Part of the vision is that a connected world will sense other cars by other means than machine learning. The connected vehicles will all have beacons. The problem is recognized that that will not work for a cow.

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LightStar

Join Date 12/2002

+1469

Even if I had a car with self-driving capabilities, I'd turn it off.

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

I'll have a self driving bike with me as the self.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

At least self-driving cars don't read mobile/cell phone text messages while driving....

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AzDude

Join Date 11/2002

+552

Quoting Jafo,
reply 6

At least self-driving cars don't read mobile/cell phone text messages while driving....

And they don't drive Drunk

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Quoting Jafo,

reply 6

At least self-driving cars don't read mobile/cell phone text messages while driving....

Quoting AzDude,

reply 7

And they don't drive Drunk

Still no reason to go down that road. Sure, humans make stupid mistakes when behind the wheel, but self-driving cars are created by humans and are not necessarily mistake/error free. Say no more!

Besides, how lazy is the human race getting? I mean, why can't people learn to drive, be tested and licensed to drive properly, or is that too much effort and concentration?

Nope, self-driving cars are like sleeping with a cow pat under your pillow . You're better off not doing it.

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

Quoting starkers,

reply 8

Quoting Jafo,

reply 6

At least self-driving cars don't read mobile/cell phone text messages while driving....

Quoting AzDude,

reply 7

And they don't drive Drunk

Still no reason to go down that road. Sure, humans make stupid mistakes when behind the wheel, but self-driving cars are created by humans and are not necessarily mistake/error free. Say no more!

Besides, how lazy is the human race getting? I mean, why can't people learn to drive, be tested and licensed to drive properly, or is that too much effort and concentration?

Nope, self-driving cars are like sleeping with a cow pat under your pillow . You're better off not doing it.

Like being better off actually paying attention behind the wheel. That's the was I was taught to drive. But......back in the day it meant something. It was cool to have your own ride. Unfortunately the best I could pull from the rust pile was a vomit green Studebaker that took out the side of a tree first chance it got. WAM! Tree=0 Old green beard=1.

Today the tree has to giddyyup and get the hell out the way. Technologies...aren't they grand? .........NOT!

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DaveBax

Join Date 10/2007

+629

What's all the fuss. There are plenty of cars people can get to where they want without driving.

They even have a name ---- UBER----

There is no 100% tech. After all we just lost 600 people to it. Remember those 2 airplanes that were totally safe to fly that crashed a few months ago.

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wouldn't the lidar/radar do better than human eyes in fog? or at least the radar. of course what they can do with the information is another matter...

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

Quoting -RG-,

reply 10

I would rather have a self-driving riding mower cut my grass for me and do it on its own. I know they make mowers that do some of that now, but I would like to have one that took care of itself. In other words, charge itself, cut the grass itself, and put itself away. That would be nice.

I make a point of buying houses that have no grass....

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

And airplanes equipped with parachutes.

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Chasbo

Join Date 01/2005

+805

Here I am talking about The United States mainly but I suppose it could apply to Canada as well.

There would have to be expressways (East Coast, Midwest), freeways (West Coast) where whole lanes were devoted to self driving vehicles or the whole expressway/freeway would be for self driving vehicles. This could be managed by a computer system that linked to the vehicles. This system would control the traffic flow. I believe this would be very efficient. How you can mesh self driving vehicles with what we have already, human driven vehicles ( cars, buses, trucks, motorcycles and bikes ) is a problem.

Here is one vision: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/07/will-autonomous-vehicles-lead-to-a-resurgence-of-auto-centric-infrastructure/534804/

Here is a vision for trucking: https://www.123loadboard.com/blog/driverless-highway-proposed-brings-autonomous-trucks-closer-to-reality/

I'm sure people were skeptical about robots on assembly lines at first but they are now common on assembly lines. Many technological advances are met with resistance at first. Think about John Henry "The steel driving man". People do not trust what they cannot control.

I think in the future there will be highways, expressways/freeways dedicated to self driving cars and trucks. It's inevitable. It depends on if we have a future. The world may become uninhabitable for humans sooner than we think unless something drastic is done right away about the climate.

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DaveBax

Join Date 10/2007

+629

Quoting Chasbo,

reply 15

I think in the future there will be highways, expressways/freeways dedicated to self driving cars and trucks. It's inevitable.

In theory I understand what you are saying. So how does one get to these highways? I have to ride two way roads for 20 minuter till I reach one. When I'm at my Daughters it takes an hour. In most locations a major freeway or highway isn't out your front door.

Also at least here in the States it takes a month or more to fix a pot hole due to money. Of course in a 100 years or more maybe, but I can't even guess at the future that far in advance.

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

Infrastructre has been in decline or decades now. It'll take a lot more than just talk to get this bloated pachyderm up and off to the races.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Quoting Sharon36743,

reply 17

Even if I had a car with self-driving capabilities, I'd turn it off.

Exactly! Just because we can [have self-driving cars] doesn't mean we should.

There may be places where self-driving cars could possibly be viable [freeways, highways, etc] but as Dave Bax pointed out, these are not always accessible to the average/regular motorist who is just leaving home to visit friends or relatives, to go to work or go shopping. In these instances the self-driving car is/will be a liability.

In this current age there are no real situations a self-driving car can or will be safe.... period.

In 200 -300 years, maybe, but right now it's ludicrous to even think self-driving cars are a viable proposition.

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

Show me where there is a substitute for intuition and I'll show you a self driving person.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

I don't know you guys are very pessimistic. I guess for the first few years their will be bugs that need to be worked out. Lets compare a human reflex next to a machine. A computer can compute at nano seconds. Where a person would need at least 0.7 seconds to identify the problem then at least 0.7 seconds to decide. Then at least 0.7 seconds to react. Something a computer can do in 3 nanoseconds.

Seeing through fog is a problem for a person. Where a computer doesn't need eyes. Maybe it uses eyes, maybe it doesn't. Automobiles could give off signals. Technically everyone could give off signals. Even animals could get marked.

Now if a car can't tell a bus is more important than a bus then it's more of a program fault. The computer should always chose people.

What about the person who can't see to drive.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 21

What about the person who can't see to drive.

Then that person should never be a motorist. Period!

I no longer drive because health issues dictate that I am not safe behind the wheel, and I choose not to drive for the greater good, the other motorists and pedestrians using the roads, etc. I therefore suggest most vehemently that incapacitated persons do not need self-driving cars but a taxi.... somebody capable to drive for them.

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

Providing of course the driver has a fair knowledge of HOW TO drive. Then I'm all for it but......reading about some instances where the driver and passengers were at odds with one another......I'll take my bike.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

I've met some of the world's most capable drivers. The holders of a 'Super Licence' - that means Formula One [in spite of what the locals might say...it IS the pinnacle of Motorsport] and yet I can say quite unequivocally that the current World Champion [and thus in theory the best driver on the planet] is an utter dickhead. Doing burnouts in a rental car outside the circuit in a public city street?....there are eff-wit HOONS that do that.

Provided Hamilton doesn't program the self-drive cars there's a fair to middle chance they will end up superior/safer than him....

Sadly, as an FIA Observer I'm required to be impartial....but I do tend to smile a wee bit when he sticks it into a barrier...

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Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 5

At least self-driving cars don't read mobile/cell phone text messages while driving....

I am in total agreement there. I commute on the interstate back and forth to work everyday. At least a 3rd are distracted with something. I have had a car totaled because of a distracted driver. She totaled 2 cars but got to drive hers home. That's not right.

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MindlessMe

Join Date 12/2011

+36

At the end of the day, we have to look at the many ways the car has to get information. Visually there are simple cameras, multi-spectrum cameras, OCR technologies, etc. to help "see" what is around them. With tech like that, something like fog is irrelevant. When you add an advanced AI into the mix, you have the ability to make a car far safer than if a human was behind the wheel. The problem comes when the AI is required to make a decision that has potential impacts on the vehicles around it. It's the classic trolley problem. How do you teach AI to rationalize the potential loss of life.

Autonomous vehicles are something we won't escape, and in fact, the tech is growing rapidly.

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Quoting Iben,

reply 24

Self-Driving Uber Car Kills Pedestrian in Arizona, Where Robots Roam

That there are a few cases of bad accidents with self driving cars, that's no proof of them being unsafe. In fact, when you count the number of cases, it's more of a proof of them being much safer than human drivers! And that's before figuring out whether the self driving car is actually to blame in the reported case - most I've read were just about SDCs being involved, not them causing it.

Mind you, I agree that there are still many situations human drivers can handle better than SDCs. Or I should say, could handle better, if they pay attention, and are experienced enough to react on time and in an appropriate manner. SDCs come to the rescue when the human driver doesn't pay attention or is too unexperienced to react properly and in time.

Unfortunately, when you ask a human driver, (s)he'll always only consider how good they can be at the wheel under optimal conditions, and therefore not choose to let the car drive in their stead. They won't consider the off-chance of them being unattentive at the wrong time, or not being able to handle a case they've never experienced before. It's a psychological problem, not a technical one.

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